Mercy For The Temporarily Insane

that girlYesterday I started catching up on some of the blogs I follow, and I ran into a post that made me really think about my reactions when I found out Chef was having an affair. I’m not going to link to the woman’s site, mainly because I don’t want to accidentally send a wave of pissed off blogging wives to jump her and verbally pound her face in.  That would have been my first reaction not all that long ago.

The site is written by The Other Woman who a married man is seeing, and the man’s wife obviously knows about the affair. She wrote a post that included an email from the wife and her own responses back. It wasn’t a pleasant exchange.

I know it must seem odd that I would follow people who were publicly embracing infidelity since I’m so only just recently scarred from just such an experience, but it really isn’t so weird for me at all. PTSD’s gift to me was an obsession to understand a problem from every angle so it can never hurt me. So much for the power of PTSD symptoms….. Knowledge has its limitations.

The betrayed wife was so hurt and angry, and it showed in every word that she was writing. Pain, the other womandespair, and rage dripped from her accusations. She was protecting the betrayed spouse, making excuses for his behavior, and laying the full blame almost entirely on the mistress. I realized just how different things seem when you aren’t in the storm yourself. From just the little I had seen between these three people, it was easy to form the opinion that the wife was being unfair, the mistress defensive, and God knows what the husband really was doing throughout this twisted experience. Almost exactly the same scenario I was involved in not that long ago. I was doing exactly what the wife was doing — making excuses for a grown man and blaming the girlfriend, or anything else I could blame that wasn’t Chef. It made me hurt for both of them.

There are some subjects that I don’t really get involved in when I’m cruising the internet. I don’t care to argue the existence of God with atheists, or the rapture with Christians, and I avoid mistress vs wronged wife drama like it was contagious. But somehow I felt drawn in to explain that psycho rage that a woman feels and her obvious inability to see who was really to blame for all the pain she was in, at least from my own understanding of it.

I hated everything I went through, starting the second that I had proof my husband was cheating. I hated realizing I hadn’t been able to hold on to my own husband. I hated that I looked like a fool to so many people, (in my own mind, at least). I hated the insecurity of an unknown future. I hated that my emotions would fly haphazardly from one direction to the other, and I had no control over them whatsoever. I hated that this woman had written me scripture filled thank you cards and had been my own daughter’s friend. I hated satan, meth, and motorcycle patches that had been more important than me.

I hated a lot, but Chef wasn’t really on the list much. The truth is that love doesn’t die quickly or easily. All the people and things that we don’t love are simply going to get wrecked by us first, and will  probably stay our focus for a while, until what we feel for the cheating partner dies to manageable point. I haven’t loved anyone in my life before like I did Chef, and I am still surprised at the amount of slimy betrayals, cutting words, and abuse it took for the love that I had for him would even begin to fade away. Even this very minute, there is a remnant of love that I still feel for him, despite everything. I’ve accepted that it will never go away. I’m okay with that. Who wants a love that gives up so easily?

I am no person’s judge, and I don’t presume to know what anyone else should or shouldn’t do with their own lives. I just know that this experience is tough enough without the added stigma of being forever classified as a raving lunatic in everyone’s eyes that are watching you. In my case, I consider it a form of temporary insanity, and not my usual nature and disposition at all. Hopefully, mercy can be extended to wives like me who lost something big, and like this woman who just had her life derailed. As for The Other Women, I would only point out that in all of our lives, we make decisions that impact others. If the risk is worth it, by all means, do as you please. But we also all come to point where we have to pay the piper for the dance we just had, and the anguish and anger of a person you hurt is part of it. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time, right?

Just my thoughts….

~ Bird

 

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81 Comments

  1. It amuses me when the Other Women think they will ever be the only woman in that man’s life who has done that. If he does that with her, he will leave her in the same fashion. I hope she’s “proud” of herself! I too have followed the blog of another Other Woman, yet she gets jealous easily. I’m scratching my head in confusion wondering how is she able to control her jealousy being the other woman? She’s ever going to be the second best. She knows flat out he’s messing around with his wife the next day or the same day and is okay with doing things with him hours later. People are disgusting, plain and simple.

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    • Amused wasn’t what I was feeling….lol!

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      • Haha, with the way they disrespect people in relationships, it will eventually get back to them and they’ll get a dose of their own medicine. That’s what I always say. :)

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        • Yeah, only by that time, you have moved on and the pleasure in it just didn’t seem to be there.

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          • That’s true, unfortunately.

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            • I actually prayed for both my ex and his girlfriend to experience every ounce of pain I had, and to cry every tear I had. When they eventually did, I found it less than satisfying. I don’t want to be that person.
              I still have bouts of anger and the ache is still there sometimes, but I’ve regained my composure and march doggedly towards complete forgiveness. …not for their sakes, but for my own. I certainly don’t deserve to spend the rest of my life caught in a web that those two created. I didn’t make this mess. I love life and all the good things in it. I’m moving on.

              Isn’t that really the best revenge when it’s all said and done?

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  2. I enjoyed reading your perspective, and understanding your story and emotions. :)

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    • Thank you. Life is hard on both sides of the fence, wouldn’t you say? There’s always a need for some mercy in every life.

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      • I will agree that life can very well be hard on both sides. :) It just takes everyone in the situation acknowledging that. Mercy is very much needed. :)

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        • You’re a likable girl, OW, and while I don’t condone what you are doing, I will always try to be a fair but honest ear for you. I’m not judgmental because I have already done something similar to this as a younger woman, and I learned some heavy lessons about what we do to ourselves when we send this kind of stuff out in the world. Some stuff can’t be learned through hearing about other people’s experiences, and I don’t think any one should defined by a big mistake.

          As one who already dealt with these consequences long ago, I’d only advise you that you need to be able to like yourself when it is all been said and done. Forget angry wives and superficial friends. Be a person you can respect and admire, and if you need to change some things to get there, then do it. Love is nice, but it is not worth being disappointed or embarrassed with yourself for. I hope you know I mean only to help a fellow girl, and not being a bossy know-it-all. Life is really kind of hard…it is harder for people who don’t like what they’ve become. No matter where you are, you are still always there. Be sure you can look yourself right in the eye.

          Take care, and be a little easy on the wrecked wife. She’ll eventually come to terms with her pain. Don’t add to it. That’s not nice! :-)

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          • Ha, :)…well thank you for viewing me as a likable girl. Not sure to some I am, but I am OK with that and have come to peace that I won’t always be. As you have stated, the most important person I need to be liked by is myself. I truly do appreciate your views and advice from someone who has been in the shoes I am today. I try and have always tried to strive to be someone that I can look in a mirror and not be ashamed of. I have made mistakes, will continue to make them, but I will not let it define me. I also understand the very dangerous line I am on right now. I also understand everything and everyone involved. I don’t have the right answers to what I should do, and although to many it is that I walk away from this, I will be honest that I am not completely sure that is the best decision for me, as selfish as that may sound. I will try along this path not to compromise myself. Thank you very much for your kind words and advice. :) I am aware your only intentions are to help and nothing else, that is why I appreciate them. As for the scorned wife, I will always try to be nice and understanding, if you would have read the actual thread, you would have known how very nice and patient I tried to be. Unfortunately she did not want to see that and was out to just try to cause some type of pain. I don’t think anyone is entitled to her high horse of judgement. Either way, thank you very much for all your kind words. :)

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  3. omgosh for a moment there I thought you were talking about my blog concerning the narc guy—–or was it. I have a post like the one you described……………

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    • Lol! What??!! You too?

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      • yes, I do. months after the married-sociopath and I broke up the first wife and I became friends–we saw his patterns and knew he had another girlfriend after me. We both decided we should contact the current wife who incidently he had cheated on the first wife with. Well current wife got her panties in a bunch and was in denial over her husbands affairs and sent me email back in which she stated she approves his affairs—soI posted it on my blog——That wife knows he cheats and just looks the other way—-They guy has been on the lookout for wife #3 for two years now. Current wife should thank me–2 women he targeted after me contacted me because of the blog and broke things off with him.

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        • Oh, believe me. I spent the first 43 years of my life being able to control my crazy enough to think nothing could shake me loose, and it took about two minutes to find out, I could be out of control and wrecked, just like anyone else. I physically beat her up. My mother would have just died!!! I can’t say I would be any different today. Pain like that is unbearable. I would wish it on no one.

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  4. Reblogged this on It won't always be bad… and commented:
    “All the people and things that we don’t love are simply going to get wrecked by us first, and will probably stay our focus for a while, until what we feel for the cheating partner dies to manageable point. ”

    This is so true! Its often puzzled me why this happens and i could never quite get it into words… I know it puzzles others as well, perhaps waywards and op’s especially… I pretty much determined it had nothing to do with her from the time i found out, of course i wanted to know about her from his perspective, to get where he was at, and i was a bit curious, but i only looked her up several times… i wanted nothing from her specifically except for her to get lost! but then she tried to bully her way in! not uber aggressively, but enough to make it clear that she was trying to fuck with me… i dont quite understand why they do that? and it usually seems to be OW’s… OMs dont seem to act like that, from what ive read (because theyre too busy trying to manage their real life wife i suppose) i would love to hear anyones thoughts on that!

    i seem to have let it go for the most part, its almost at ‘this is just something that happened’ point… but i guess i still have an interest in it, betrayed wives club… address… hotel california… as a… err… i dont know… think i just have the same PTSD obsession symptom!

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    • I certainly am not saying that the other woman is blameless. Every woman knows that if she is sleeping with someone’s husband, that shit can go nuclear, and that she deserves it because if the shoe was on the other foot, she’d be just as insane. All the justifications and excuses and reasons in the world don’t change what every XX chromosome in America is born knowing. The longer the lists of why it was okay that we did it, the more evident it is that we knew it was not cool to do in the first place.

      Just so you don’t feel alone out there, I looked up Chef’s OW’s Instagram account about two weeks ago hoping to find she had gained 40 pounds. I’m not even mad anymore. I just might have some residual spite lingering.

      Incidentally, she didn’t gain any weight. Damn it. ;-)

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      • im not sure they do know it can go nuclear? or at least they dont give it much thought… in my case, i think she thought she was just going to get away with everything she wanted (that he *promised* her) and that would be it… ive found that most of us wives are very similar… but i think OWs come in all shapes and sizes, different lives and different motivations and expectations, some lose the plot, some just fade away, some are known to us and some are complete strangers, some are out to steal and some are just having a time… and some of them are serious bullies and really try to fuck things up. idk. *the OW* as a concept, cant really be generalised… theres one out, and thats when you had no idea there was a wife or girlfriend… but i think those are a minority…

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        • I think a lot of factors can be involved when a girl decides to have an affair with a married man, but the number one reason is she wants to be preferred, as well as loved. A woman Chef and I knew actually serial-wrecked marriage after marriage. As soon as the men would leave their wives, she would move on to the next guy. She hit on Chef while I was in a coma!!!

          While I can’t say I won’t beat her face in even today should she come around again, I do see a pattern of envy that works a little differently than just pure, unadulterated jealousy. She had been dumped for a younger woman after a long marriage herself, and her broken self-image tried repeatedly to fix itself by taking her revenge on other wives. It’s sad, but I’ve seen this happen many, many times with women who can’t deal with what happened. They become The Other Women…or in their minds, The Winner. In these scenarios, who is really to blame? The first husband? The woman he cheated with? The jilted wife looking to find herself again?

          I think despite what I feel every scorned woman in world tends to think when they first find out about an affair, most mistresses have their own story that led them to that point, and while no one finds them admirable and honorable, they probably aren’t all Satan Incarnated either. Personally, Chef’s little side dish made my head heart with how sad her little journey on earth had been, and it was no great mystery she ended up in a married man’s bed. She wasn’t even really hateable, much to my despair. She was just a dumb young girl who wanted someone to love her.

          Life is never so black and white. I’ve had to learn to live in the gray areas.

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          • its just strange and weird and… yeah. nasty. being preferred, so lol! but i agree with you that thats what it is.

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            • Lol!! That whole experience was just a lesson in pure insanity!!! I’ve never been so confused. pissed, depressed, and out-of-control of myself in my entire life, and I was molested for years as a child! What the hell?????

              Glad that’s over. How about you?! I was just relieved when my emotions didn’t stay that way. I was worried I’d end up in prison or padded room.

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              • i feel like ive been insane my whole life!!!! at least my whole adult life, which is how long our relationship was… more good days than bad days, beginning to remember who i was before we met, beginning to remember the world is not out to get me heh. and feeling better about it! i was on my way to a padded cell too! did not like, do not want!

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                • You know, I can relate with always feeling one step ahead of the guys with the white jackets and the padded van. I was married to Chef my whole adult life, too. You never notice yourself becoming just one half of a whole until you lose the other half. I’m learning the same stuff you are it would seem, about getting to know who I’ve always been all by myself.

                  I like it. Who knew??

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                  • liking it so far! more likes to come?

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                    • Oh, yes. The best is yet to come, my little friend!!! Keep watching out for it!!

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                    • i have a bit of a list…
                      stop obsessing
                      be silly
                      have fun

                      repeat. lol

                      oh, and get my butt to school, get that degree and get to korea and eat bibimbap all day.

                      oh and paint the house and stop forgetting rubbish day!

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  5. I couldn’t disagree with you more. I’ve written to the other woman a couple of times. Would she say that I didn’t blame Paul, only her? Maybe. Because no matter how furious I was with him, why on EARTH is that relevant to her? Why would anyone share that with any outsider especially someone so toxic to the marriage.
    I think people who expect a neutral assessment of what fault lay where when writing to the other woman are missing the point. You write to your audience. She was to blame for everything I laid at her door. Every bit of it. Did that let him off the hook just because I didn’t rail about him? No.
    The thing about infidelity is there’s enough blame for both parties.
    I had lots of other ways to express my anger with Paul, I lived with him, I did counselling with him, he apologised constantly and did many things to try to mend things. What did she do? None of that. She constantly kept turning up demanding to see him, emailing him, getting other people to email him. She sent an “apology” that was nothing of the kind but a justification and stab at me, wouldn’t send it to me no, had to send it to him. It was nothing like an apology anyway. Basic message “yeah sorry you’re hurt but I had no choice and now I “entrust” this poor man to you.
    No, I think you’re mistaken to judge the wife’s letter. And you’re wrong to say not to judge the OW. You say you don’t judge but every line judges the wife only. Of course we should judge, wisely and for justice.
    The other woman deserves everything the wife says to her and the wife deserves none of what the OW says, it’s that simple.

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    • I think we might not quite be in sync. I absolutely am not advocating that wives and mistresses console each other. I think we all know that would be ridiculous, and frankly, dangerous for mistresses everywhere. Nor am I saying that a betrayed wife doesn’t have every right to be angry with the other woman as well as with her spouse. I’m saying that while a woman is freaking out about losing something her whole life had been centered around, people should not judge things that she says and does harshly.

      I flipped the hell out. I’d been married twenty plus years and raised three kids with my husband. We were not estranged, neglectful, or tumultuous in our relationship. We had a very happy marriage. He became addicted to drugs, and he found himself a girl 30 years younger than himself, and then paraded around with her for everyone I knew to see. I was beyond freaked. I did and said a series of things that were very unlike my normal personality. I wrote horrible things not only to her, but to her mother. I made her deal with my presence in their home on every day off I knew she had because I knew she hated it. I let my ex pass out on my couch and then turn his phone off so she would wonder what he was doing all night. Finally, I beat her up physically. I am not saying she didn’t deserve what she had coming to her. I’m saying that from the outside, it had to look unfair because I was doing nothing to Chef per se.

      I read a post where The Other Woman publicized a communication between herself and the wife, and the wife sounded almost pathetic trying to excuse the spouse and make everything she was feeling the OW’s fault. Unless you’ve been the crazy person, it is hard to miss the glaring injustice of being so angry at the person who did NOT make YOU any promises, and then break them. I wanted to point out that wives that have their worlds rocked like this should be given a lot of leeway until they stabilize emotionally.

      And I was cautioning The Other Woman that life is full of proof that What Comes Around, Goes Around, and despite everything, it is never a bad idea to cut anyone a break, especially when you played a part in the breaking someone’s life to pieces. I can’t be harsh with her either. I’ve made too many mistakes that have hurt others myself to be judgmental or condemning.

      You are not to be judged for navigating what I consider the worst kind a pain a woman can feel, by any means necessary to survive it, and if you rock TOW’s world, that is the price she has to pay for the decision to do this. I don’t think that’s wrong thinking.

      I am sorry this happened to you. I’d wish it on no one.

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      • I don’t agree and I found your message fairly strongly supporting the OW. I don’t wish to debate you on it but it’s worth knowing that’s how it sounds.

        Whether you punish him or hold him accountable is your business not hers. She’s just as much to blame as if you were tearing him down too. And you’ve bought the OW line of “I made no vows to you”. It’s bollocks. I made no vows to my neighbours but I don’t run over their bloody dog who terrorises my kids and messes my garden. It’s wrong so I don’t end of story.

        As for what you did to her- turning off his phone is bloody brilliant. Kudos. Love that.

        Beating her up is silly because it doesn’t really hurt her it hurts you, it makes her a victim which she has no right to be and exposes you legally.

        But anything legal you do to the OW is fair. Anything. She deserves it and she bought it with her cheating. I’ve no truck with this non-judgmental thing because if we don’t judge it we condone it. Simple as that.

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        • It is your right to believe I’m wrong, and that is fine by me.I’ve never really found what is so spectacular about being right in things like this anyways.

          You mentioned earlier that you consider yourself righteous. None of what I did, legal or illegal, was right, if we go by the definition of righteous. Are you sure you are being righteous? Having a legitimate reason to be angry doesn’t equate to being righteous.

          I guess we have to get through by any means we can. I wish you the best.

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          • Righteous means morally justified. We are completely righteous. It’s a shame you’ve given succour to slut OW though :(

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            • that’s funny I seem to recall a situation in the new testament where a crowd was getting ready to stone a woman for adultery and Jesus stopped them basically saying ye without sin may throw the first stone. Hmnn Ms. Righteousness I am guessing that you have never sinned or made mistakes so hence you feel justified in stoning the other woman—–of course I am assuming that you are a Christian since you write of moral justifications —funny how even Jesus did not feel anyone was morally justified to judge another. Guess that’s just one of the quirks of Christianity, not following the actual teachings of Jesus, damn.

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              • I think you missed the point of the story. He was anti death penalty but he did judge the adulteress. He told her to go and sin no more. I don’t know why you think only religious people have morality…very interesting. I’m not religious at all.

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                • I disagree he did not judge her, if he had judged her he would have allowed the crowd to stone her. The point of that story was to not judge because we all have skeletons in our closets. I am not religious either and my moral compass comes from an innate sense of right from wrong–not that I am perfect because I am not. So your absolute sense of righteousness comes from being the wife that got cheated on? Is your husband a sociopath? Is that why he cheated or were there other factors involved that caused him to cheat on you? I am guessing you are a perfect woman if you can call the other woman a slut who deserves what ever bad things happen to her. But if you are so perfect and so righteous why did your husband cheat on you or am I getting you confused with a different commentator?

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                  • I think you’re completely wrong about the story and I’ve posted on exactly that issue. My husband was narcissistic which is another inner reason (the only kind!). The difference is he’s remorseful. She’s not. And clearly you’re not. That’s sociopathic. No remorse.

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                    • You posted about this issue on a site that no one can see without your permission. That seems hardly fair.

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                    • Nephilla, yes I tried to get to your blog but it’s set to private as Bird noted. Why have a blog that’s set to private I dont’ get it. So it really doesn’t matter what you posted since no one can see it. As for sociopaths—having been involved with one I can tell you without a doubt that they are not remorseful. If your husband is acting remorseful then it it just that an act. Bird is not a sociopath by no means you however by note of your responses are bordering on the sociopathic. Why don’t you check out my post on NPD–you might learn something. As as for the other woman to be remorseful why should she be? Her mistake was getting involved with an ass she thought cared about her. He probably told her a bunch of lies like divorce was on the table or in process, that you sucked at sex, that you had no sexual relationship–my god these sociopaths can say all sorts of things and make them sound real. If your husband is really a sociopath why are you with him? You should be running as fast as you can in the opposite direction. Why are you angry at Bird or me or anyone else that points out the flaws in your arguments. Yes you have lots of anger. A lot of that is being directed at the other woman. What did your angelic husband say to you that she “seduced ” him, that he couldn’t help himself. Your anger my dear should be directed on the only person who had made a vow to you and broke it your husband. The OW made no vows to you. Your anger at her is what is called TRIANGULATION. I am guessing your husband is fueling your anger at her because it deflects the real anger you have at him. And Bird I do not think you are a bad Christian–Jesus said love your neighbor-love God and don’t judge–that’s it. Everything else in religions were created by men–all the rules and hoopla. Those three teachings of Jesus and the 10 commandments and you are good to go. Sorry if you feel I disrespected your religion because that was not my intent. As for Nephila, you need to stop blaming the ow for what your husband did–and if he is a narcissistic sociopath–run because guess what in a few months you will be hearing about the new OW—-it’s what they do.

                      Have a blessed day everyone.

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                    • I didn’t think you were disrespecting anything. I was talking to her. I can’t stand for people to use the bible for validation when they are clearly incorrect.

                      I am sorry she’s caught in such a web of bitterness and anger, but like I had to learn with Chef, you can’t help someone who doesn’t want the help.

                      It’s just to know that you’ve been wounded by something hard and struggle with it for awhile. But at some point you have to decide if the rest of your life is going to be about this injustice, or is the rest of your life going to mean something else. She’s stuck because she’s letting it define herself. That is where we differ — her on one side, and you and me on the other. It makes me thank God for all He has taught me!

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                    • Bird I am glad we are on the same side. I like to think I chose my fellow warriors well. :)

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                    • Nope. He’s never defended his behaviour. He is not angelic but he is truly remorseful. He was narcissistic enough to think it was enough that he was here, but he could have his bit of role play with her and it would do no harm. Wrong.

                      Did he lie to her? Sure, after he was in. But she stalked us, groomed him, then slowly got him to pity her (with lies) and cross boundaries. Was he wrong? Absolutely! Was she deceived? No.

                      The bottom line is this: all you need to know is that they’re married. Everything else is irrelevant. As it happened he never told her he was miserable, she told him he was miserable until he started to believe it.

                      How would you feel if you accidentally ran over a dog in the street? Absolutely devastated. Guilty. You’d wish you driven more carefully, you’d apologise immediately and profusely, you’d offer to pay any costs wouldn’t you? But the OW feels no remorse. That’s the analogy.

                      I hate our neighbours dog. Hate it. It messes my garden and scares my kids. They’ve been asked nicely and they do nothing. I could just run over it. They deserve it. I don’t. It’s wrong. Simple as that. I never made any promises to them. But I still don’t.

                      It’s hilarious to watch these “Christian” OW who have no guilt for doing wrong.

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                    • I would not call myself a Christian. I don’t adhere to any religion. I just use logic and an innate moral compass. Well sweetie all I can say is that your husband has done a great job of snowballing you. Like most s-paths he is putting the blame on the OW and not on himself. Seriously, did she put a gun to his head and make him go into her and have sex with her. I really feel sorry for because you are in such a state of denial but mark my words the day will come when everything I have said and Bird has said is going to come echoing through your mind. I do undertstand how decietful these s-paths can be. And you just like the wife in my situation totally defended her husband. To my knowlege the narc in my situation has had 3 more affairs on his wife since he left me. So you see the problem was not me being the other woman–the problem is that he has malingant narcissism and is a serial cheater. Seriously you should read my blog–just click on Jay Scott Berry in the tag cloud and all those posts will come up. I hope someday you come to realize what you are really dealing with and get out before too much damage is done.

                      The whole point of all of this is that the problem is never the other woman–it’s the man who is cheating on his wife and children. There will always be another woman in this type of man’s life. I know my father was one of these types of men. I fell in love with one. I have sat on both sides of the fence. Trully I feel for your pain. If you check out the blog also read the post on R is for reflections.

                      Good luck I truly wish you well.

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                    • I’m not going to debate religion with someone so determined to misinterpret it. And he’s never blamed anyone but himself. My blame on her is entirely based on her own words. Go figure, she laid her motives out for all to see in black and white! :) And even people she thinks are friends call her a sociopath. Nice try though. Never the OW in the wrong… Ha

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                    • No, I agree with you. I don’t recommend debating religion with someone who has a Masters of Arts degree in Religious Studies and whose area of expertise is Early Christianity and the roles of Women in the Church. You are right it would be pointless for you to have an intellectual debate with me as I can most likely disprove anything you would have to say that I know to be incorrect. Gee I only went to grad school for five years, what would I know about religion or Christianity or women? And as for Narcisstic Personality Disorder, well I have spent the past two years doing a self-directed study on that subject matter. I also don’t recommend debating NPD with me as it seems you have quite a lot to learn regarding the mental disorder. So really good luck with that “made in heaven marriage and husband” that you have. If he is remorseful and you have forgiven him why all the anger? Who cares what the OW is doing or saying if it’s over? Get on with your marriage and with your life. “Let it go, let it go”—from the film frozen–seriously let all the anger with the OW go and get on with the business of building your marriage. Bird was really just making a point that was relevant to her life and to her experiences—she did not out you. You outed yourself on this blog, why? The Buddha another great sage has said, “Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.”

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                    • I was waiting to see how long it would be before you rolled out your credentials! :-) lol!!!

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                    • No I go by Desmond Tutu who said “if you are neutral in situations of injustice you have chosen the side of the oppressor” and Edmund Burke who said “the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”

                      That’s why we must judge infidelity and those who engage in it. Simple as that.

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                    • It isn’t all that hard to find someone noteworthy to back us up in anything we choose to do. It is almost simple-minded to truly believe everyone can be judged with one broad brush.

                      Your attitude and anger are really not righteous nor are you helping good triumph over evil with any of this. You got hurt, and you’re lashing out at the same time trying be blameless in your wrath.

                      You have that right. It is your life. However, you aren’t accomplishing much here on my site other than making yourself look really bad. Let it go. Yvonne is very educated in the subjects you are trying to use as your arguments, and the holes in your theories are showing. Please stop. I think you’ve done the best you can do expressing yourself. It’s time to move on.

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                    • You can keep defending the OW. I will keep bearing witness that she deserves to be judged harshly. If you really think you’re on the side of right on that, that’s kind of sad.

                      But if I ever run over my neighbours dog I’m sure you’ll jump to my defence. After all, I made no promises.

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                    • And Kahil Gibrahn said, ” The murdered is as guilty as the murderer.” Following that premise I would have to ask what did you do that caused your husband to cheat on you?

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                    • And no, you’re completely wrong about the story and some jumped up appeal to your own authority doesn’t change it. I never said my marriage was heaven sent. My marriage was happy and content and now it labours under the pain inflicted on one party and the injustice that we cannot force the outsider to leave us alone. She’s pathetic in her determination to get his attention but she’s mean and cruel nonetheless. No, she gets no quarter from me nor should she from any honest decent person.

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                    • Nephila, where is your husband’s balls? If this twit keeps causing problems, and your husband has chosen to work on his marriage with you, why is the marriage still laboring along?
                      Your anger is quite evident just in this conversation alone. If you are this angry just with differing opinions from a bunch of people you don’t know, I can probably guess you can’t be all that fun for him to live with either. Since you get to decide how I should think in order to be a decent person, I guess it is fair to say if you want to win this struggle between you and the woman who’s decided your husband, (who seems pretty pathetic himself from the way you describe all of this) is the man for her, you might want to get a grip on that bitterness and denial. If all of these people really are the way you’ve made them sound, I’d let the two wimps have each other and go find me a man who stands his ground, no matter what mistake he might have made in the past.
                      At some point, Nephila, we have to stop blaming all of our woes on the actions of other people, and look to ourselves to make the right decisions for ourselves. Otherwise, people find our pathetic desperation to hold on to things so far in our pasts repulsive, and we end up alone.
                      I’ve had enough of your rant, and I imagine so have my friends. Please take your rant elsewhere.

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                    • Ah blaming the victim was the next step, as expected :) He’s done everything he can. He can’t get her fired or stop people at his workplace inviting her. Her her behaviour is not our fault.

                      Now get back to me when you’re willing to put some blame on her and not just on everyone else (note I’m not saying he doesn’t earn plenty).

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                    • Anything else will be unapproved. I’m not offended by differing opinions, but what you are doing is expressly for the sole purpose of starting fights. This is trolling, and it isn’t welcome here. Enough. Please take yourself back to your own site.

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                    • It isn’t trolling, it is bearing witness. These women are not insane temporarily or otherwise. They are righteous because they have been wronged not only by their husbands but by these sluts. Simple as that. Delete all my comments, doesn’t make them less true.

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                    • The only bearing witness you’ve done is to your own circumstances. You have not, nor could never, bear witness to anyone else’s. You are definitely not the crowning authority on any of the subjects you’ve randomly thrown about. You aren’t religious, but you claim a religious expertise. You aren’t a Christian, but you believe your an authority on the messages of the parables. You have made yourself the judge and jury on a planet full of women who have their own stories — many of them with wounds and scars of their own — and relegated them all to hell. Your pain has become a bitter root in your life, and your words drip with venom. You make yourself look unsympathetic and drives me, at least, to feeling sympathy for the very people who hurt you. Show some wisdom. Stop talking to people who don’t know you. Nothing good is coming from this, for you at least.
                      I can assure you…I for one can’t be shamed into changing my views about anything, and neither can a lot of people you’ve been addressing. You know this, I think. Your anger needs to come out, but do it in a manner that will be productive. Get a therapist. Or a pastor. Or just a friend who loves you unconditionally. You are ruining your own life with all of this…no one else’s, including your supposed slut. If she’s as horrible as you say, she would probably just laugh her butt off reading this. Do you want that?
                      If you don’t want her to win, fight better by being someone people want to be around and enjoy spending time with. I have to say, I’ve never kicked anyone off my site before, but I will you, if only to show you how bitterness, wrong justifications, and trolling will chase everyone away from you.
                      Life’s too short to hang with a self-righteous, angry, unpleasant woman.
                      You really need to become more self-aware.

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                    • It is so clear that you’ve done it to someone that’s why you want to excuse it. I know what I am bearing witness to. I’m flattered you find my witness so threatening you need to carry on about it. Obviously it bites.

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                    • Again I have to say that as long as you continue to put all the blame on this OW and not look at yourself and what could have caused your husband to stray you will never be able to put your marriage back on track, if it ever was on track. I am not trying to diminish your pain or make less of it. It is real. All I am saying is that the path to healing lies in looking at yourself and your demons. The OW is merely and outside manifestation of something inside of you. And you can be angry and fault this woman all you want but the answer to your happiness lies only between what is going on between you and your husband.

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                    • Very well said. The only things in our lives we’ll ever have a molecule of control over is our reactions to the things that happen to us. I feel bad for her, but only in so much that I understand what kind of pain can cause this irrational behavior. It falls upon ourselves to at least try to find a way to begin to heal.

                      Sidenote: Her husband doesn’t impress me at all. Forget the wicked OW. Where is his actions to fix what he has obviously broken very, very badly? I can’t stand a ball-less wonder.

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                    • Oh Bird, tell me what you really think ;). I feel bad for her. And here I am explaining forgiveness and non-judgment and I am judging myself. I think Jesus might have more compassion for this woman better than I can. And if she had it her way I would be in hell over one mistake that I made in my life. And I guess I feel attacked by her as well because let’s face it the truth is I am one of those other women. And I think the point is that every woman has a story, we can all be stupid when it comes to men. And I have been cheated on so many times as well–so yeah I can relate to both sides of it. But you know what Bird each and every time I got cheated on that was the end of it. I said have a good life and moved on. I understand sometimes you want to try and make it work in a marriage especially if there are kids–but you know what, the only things those kids will learn is that it’s ok for men to cheat and for women to be doormats. I respect the fact that you moved out and started rebuilding your life and I can understand some of the crazy you did–heck I am not free of crazy. You and I both spent a long time looking at what happened and what we did to create it and how to break away from it. It’s taken me almost 2 years to feel like I am me again. And you know what I may be book smart but when it comes to men I am no smarter than the next person–I have done many not-so-smart-things when it has come to men. My mother was just one of those that always looked the other way when my Dad cheated—I guess that’s why it’s the big deal breaker for me and no amount of sorry or remorse will get me to take a cheater back. I did do that two and you know what happened with that one…..love you Bird.

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                    • I have a spent great deal of time trying to understand people around me, God, and myself. There’s a beauty in how it all connects together. Everything I’ve learned about God’s nature screams mercy for us all. Nothing that she was trying to say wasn’t tainted with a poor self-image.
                      It is rarely people who have an honest understanding of themselves and their own failings that attack others so freely and so passionately. I find it’s those who frantically refuse to look to themselves who argue so much against everyone else.
                      You, like me, are guilty of choosing to take something you want, knowing full well it isn’t yours, and someone is going to be really wrecked by it. You are remorseful, also like me, and you neither justify your behavior, nor do you cast about for others to blame. You accept that there was a price to be paid, and you paid it.
                      I love mercy because I’ve needed so much in my life. After everything that happened to me, it would have been so easy to reject God since his reps usually suck. It was because He didn’t reject His unworthy followers that I stayed with him.
                      I find you a kindred spirit, and I like you, warts and all. You have a wisdom I admire and a sweet disposition. Best of all, you take me the way I am too, and I never feel judged or ashamed.
                      I get drawn in by her pain too, and not in a good way. I have a particular hatred for God being used to serve a wicked purpose, no matter what kind of pain is going on. Don’t feel bad. You weren’t unkind, only honest and refusing to be fooled. I’m proud of you! :-)

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                    • I have a big mouth and have always just told it like it is. I have in my old age learned to hold back a little. My mom was a black and white God fearing woman–meaning it was either wrong or right no in between for her (she has mellowed in her old age). I was raised to tell the truth. She would tell me and my sister that if we ever did anything wrong and she found out about it from somebody else we would get it twice as bad. So we learned to confess our sins and take our punishment at a young age. I am not proud of that affair–I should have known better. I know better now–live and learn. Because my upbring was so black and white I often wonder if I am too harsh with people and maybe should be more understanding and then I hear my mothers voice in my head saying, right is right and wrong is wrong and me going but but but…which becomes getting your butt whopped. Oh those good old days before 52 shades of gray :).

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                    • My mother was mentally ill and while she loved the Lord, she was often guilty of spinning things to justify herself. She was inclined to be merciful though. I heard so many people do this for so long, I flipped out and started calling every out who did this. I hate it!

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                    • Read up. No one causes infidelity except the affair participants. Just like crime victims don’t cause crime. But carry on justifying until karma hits you. Not my problem when it does.

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                    • Honey, Honey, Honey..listen, I got my karma years ago been there and done that hence the advice you were given…….

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                    • Oh I’m sure there is more to come. You keep earning it every time you defend OW :) Carry on.

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                • That absolutely is NOT the point of the story. I feel like since we are discussing my religion that you are not following, it is my prerogative to correct that misunderstanding. Jesus gave a crap about death penalties and politics. He was telling us that no one was sinless therefore no one is in any position to judge anyone else.

                  You can’t use Christian doctrine and its standards to describe yourself if you aren’t a believer. Morality has been discussed by atheists worldwide, and the reigning agreement is that if we answer to no one, we aren’t violating any rules if we do what we please. The standards of morality come straight from the Bible.

                  I don’t want to attack a person who is struggling like you are, but I’m not letting anyone make Christianity look any worse than the Christians already do. We give God plenty of black eyes without the help, thank you.

                  Yvonne, I hope you realize, just because Christians, like me, are blowing it is spectacularly shitty ways, it doesn’t make God a bad deity. He just doesn’t have much to work with in some of us!!

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                  • I’m not an atheist and until recently I was religious. You’re completely wrong about the point of the story.

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                    • Again you are wrong about the point of the story, which is about forgiveness and non-judgment but hey if you don’t beleive us here you go taken from the Bible Gateway website,

                      “When Jesus calls for the one without sin to cast the first stone he accomplishes several things: it relieves him from the charge of having instigated a stoning; it ensures there will not be a stoning, since none of the accusers will want to take responsibility for it; and it causes them to reflect on their own sinfulness before God. It has often been suggested that the eldest accusers were the first to leave (v. 9) because they recognized their own sinfulness more readily. However, leaving in this order may simply reflect the custom of deferring to the elders. In any case, their withdrawal was in fact a confession of sin. Those who came to condemn ended up condemning themselves by not casting a stone.

                      Jesus is left alone, sitting on the ground, bent over and writing, with the woman standing before him. As Augustine says, “The two were left alone, misera et misericordia” (“a wretched woman and Mercy”; In John 33.5). This prepares for the fourth and final stage of this story–Jesus’ response to the woman (vv. 10-11). He straightens up and asks for a report of what happened, as if he had been totally oblivious to what took place as he concentrated on his writing. He does not ask her about the charges but rather about that aspect of the situation most heartening to the woman: Where are they? Has no one condemned you? (v. 10). They had of course condemned her in their accusations, but by not following through on the charge they had thrown out her case.

                      But there is one left who could still execute the judgment–the only one present who was without sin and thus could throw the first stone. Is she hopeful at this point or still quite frightened? We can only speculate as to whether the woman was familiar with Jesus and his embodiment of the mercy of God. In any case, she becomes a memorable example of the fact that “God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him” (3:17). Jesus says to her, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, and from now on no longer sin” (8:11). By adding then to the beginning of this sentence the NIV allows the most unfortunate suggestion that Jesus’ response was caused by the response of the teachers of the law and the Pharisees. The translation of the end of the verse is also unfortunate, since leave your life of sin “almost paints the woman as an habitual whore (though the Greek bears no such overtones)” (Carson 1991:337).

                      Jesus grants pardon, not acquittal, since the call to leave off sinning shows he knew she was indeed guilty of the adultery. His noncondemnation is quite different from theirs. They wanted to condemn but lacked the opportunity; he could have done so, but he did not. Here is mercy and righteousness. He condemned the sin and not the sinner (Augustine In John 33.6). But more than that, he called her to a new life. The gospel is not only the forgiveness of sins, but a new quality of life that overcomes the power of sin (cf. 8:32-36; 1 Jn 3:4-6).”

                      And I think any woman who has had the misfortune of being involved with a married man surely would never do it again. Unless of course it is a female narc—they like doing things like that.

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                    • Beautiful!!!

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                    • You know Bird I am like a pit bull once I grab on I just can’t let go. And ain’t it nice to know that I can use my M.A. in Relgious Studies even after graduating. I feel sorry for this woman she is in a lot of pain and denial. I pray for her healing

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  6. I guess I don’t think we are temporarily insane, or insane at all. We are righteous.

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    • There was nothing at all righteous about some of the mean, spiteful things I was doing to my ex’s girlfriend. Actually, I’ve never been a person anyone could call righteous. I hated the bitterness and rage, but I seemed helpless to stop myself. There’s just no pain like that.

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  7. Awhile back I was in a situation where I was the other woman, except for the part I didn’t know I was! It was maybe 5/6 months before I found out about the original girlfriend. I was pretty hurt and felt betrayed. I had to ditch my feelings real quick though. If I was hurt, I can only imagine what the real girlfriend would feel if she knew. Let’s just say, I no longer talk to the guy. The other woman maybe not always be aware she is the other woman. But I find it so incredibly stupid for those who know to stay in the situation. Women need to respect one another and not destroy each other. But don’t even get me started on the disgusting men who start the affairs.

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    • Mine was the same way!! I didn’t know until the damage was already done. Still, I wasn’t blameless either. Life is just complicated. I try to be fair about things, but when I’m crushed by betrayal, I can forget that sometimes. Being a woman, I hate hurting other women. It’s almost worse than hurting a guy’s feelings.

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      • No one can be perfect all the time. Mistakes are our lessons. we learn and move on to the next mistake. And yes life is really complicated! When you start to think its all figured out and great, you get another curve ball thrown at you.

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  8. WHEW!!!! I’m exhausted just reading through all previous posts. I’m not on anyones side here. I truly believe each of us has the right to our own opinion and the right to express them (respectfully) which I think was the goal of the exchange. Anyway here’s a thought to head down a different path. Since I am still with husband (after he cheated), forgiven him, working on marriage. Yes he could still be seeking new narc. supply (other women), I do not know for sure. But I was thinking of throwing it out to him that maybe we should have an “open marriage” so I could get some strange on the side too!! I’m really not going to (tried that first marriage-his idea-didn’t really help cuz I don’t need sex that bad that i’d sleep with anything that walks) do that but I wanted to see his reaction because he does act very jealous of me when out if some guy pays a little attention to me. So just want to see the reaction on his face when he thinks that I want to do someone else. Don’t think he’ll be so open to THAT. thanks

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    • Lol…. It sounds like something I would try…. If you do, please come back and tell me how it went. That’s hilarious!

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      • That’s like playing with fire if he is a narc. And it’s how Steeve Reenkamp got killed by Oscar Pstoris in an uncontrolable fit of narc rage. I would not recommend it. It sounds like you are trying to get back at him for cheating and even though you say you have forgiven him it does not seem so. Like I said before I have never stayed with a cheating man so I don’t really know what that is like. But what I do know is that I want to be in a marriage where I am respected and adored and where I adore and respect. Playing mind-fuck games does not sound like a healthy way to have a good marriage. And if the only way you can get attention from your husband is by pretending other men are interested in you why would you want to be with him? Just my humble opinion.

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  9. Well I hadn’t thought of it that way! But I guess it could be a possibility. It may not sound like I have forgiven him, but I have for PAST indiscretion. My concern is activity since that point, since survey says “he’ll do it over and over” it does worry me some. Occasionally when on a roll, I may share things that have crossed my mind that most likely I would not do. But one never knows , especially dealing with infidelity, exactly what could happen in unforeseen circumstances. I do appreciate you thoughts and comments and having a sisterhood for support during these tough times.

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