A Thought About Passionate Debates

One of my brothers growing up had this annoying habit of claiming victory whenever we played a game, despite the fact that he had not won, or had blatantly cheated to achieve that victory. The more the other siblings would try to show him that he wasn’t the winner, and why, the more he would cover his ears and chant loudly that he had won. Finally, because the whole argument was worthless, we would leave him be, letting him believe whatever he wanted. When he would run to his friends, claiming his useless victory, he only got some nonchalant congratulations. Who really cared about a game you played at home with your brothers and sisters?

Problem for him later, though, was that he wanted to do this same routine when he played with his friends, and

Atheist avatar.
Atheist avatar. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

they immediately were put off by his behavior, thus excluding him from playing with them in the future. All he had done by narrowly viewing his own behavior as victorious, was to isolate himself in a world where only his opinion counted. A lonely existence, but one of his own making.

Here is why I point this out. There are ways to discuss topics that people get passionate about, and there are ways to point out your opinion without making any one else with a differing one feel personally attacked. Christians tend to be given a bad rap about being narrow-minded and judgmental, but when you post things like this —Gotcha – after your less-than-persuasive arguments here,  then all you are doing is trying to declare a victory that wasn’t really victorious at all. All the hateful things you’ve said about Christianity, you are guilty of doing so many of them yourself in just this one conversation, and in your blogged victory speech.

Some people are given the heart to go out and  minister to the hardened  hearts of this world. I personally was given a different mission. But make no mistake…I don’t believe I need to argue in circles about whether God exists or not, or whether the Big Bang theory is true or not, or anything else. What I do believe is that one day, every knee shall bow, and every tongue will confess to God. Christians are trying to reduce the number of people lost to hell, and to help the devastated people living on earth to have some comfort, acceptance, healing, love….what was your purpose for all of this again? You quote the Crusades and all the murders that were committed by Christians all those years ago; you disregard the atheist agenda in the murders committed by them, and tell me if I really had done any research, I wouldn’t really believe. Was the Christian community planning another crusade, and forgot to send me the memo? Am I, or any of the other Christian sites, trying to stir up a holy war and start killing people? No. Most of the ones I know about are trying to help people who have been hurt and are in pain. What is your agenda here, then? Only to mock? To stir up passions? What are your motives? Your whole site belies your comment that you are just trying to understand. Your mind is obviously made up. Why antagonize others? We don’t owe you any explanations.

I guess I’m never going to understand why you go trolling to Christian sites…Is that what makes you special? This is what is going on in your life that you have to blog about? Semi-intelligent arguments about how bad Christianity is and how stupid all the followers are? That is pretty sad. What a small life you must lead.

Why in the world would I want to be an atheist based on you or your arguments? You are trying to hurt people for your own entertainment. Is this something that would be better for me to embrace? Is this why I should embrace your atheist religion? You worship your own beliefs like I worship my God. Why? So, I can then run around and diminish what other people think so I can look like one of the cool kids? No, thank you.  I’ll just stay a fool for God..I sleep better that way.

I’m not wrong about the existence of God. But if I should end up being the fool, then who will know? If you are right, you’ll just be nothing after death, and so will I. I will have lived my life trying to help other people with what I believed. What are you doing? Are you helping anyone?  What is the point of celebrating your victory if you are right? You won’t have any definitive proof when you die either!

At least if I’m right, we will both know, now won’t we?…And I am right.. 🙂

— Bird

Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise: and he that shuts his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. Proverbs 17:28

The fool says in his heart, there is no god..Psalms 14

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,

‘every knee will bow before me;

every tongue will confess to God.’”a

12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. — Roman 14: 11-12 

 


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Author: Catherine aka "Bird"

Marketing Specialist Recruiter Freelance Writer Blogger

41 thoughts on “A Thought About Passionate Debates”

  1. I totally understand what you’re saying here, and agree to a large degree. I don’t think continuing pointless arguments that go around in circles do anything except take up a lot of time that could be better spent. But that said, who’s to say that something said somewhere in that arguing won’t plant a seed somehow. I was just convicted about the fact that I was having a bit too much fun over this. I mean…it’s not funny when you get down to it. The reality is that if an atheist dies in their beliefs, or lack of them, the result is not funny at all. I do think that I’m to the point though of where unless something different is said, there’s nothing much I can say anymore. All we can do is pray…and even if you think he’s a hard head who will never get it…will you join with me in that effort? Love you my friend!

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    1. Of course I will, Anne. Mainly because you love him. And I don’t desire anyone to go to hell. Whether they irritate the snot out of me or not!! 🙂 Like I said, this is not my ministry…I will not let someone take a dump on my God and not say anything about it though. Especially if it seems only to be coming from a mean-spirited place. There are atheists that talk with me on this site and they are not rude, condescending, or insult me personally. I’ll talk with them all day long…but this stuff just makes me see red!!
      I will pray that his heart is softened…God wants him too..Imagine how powerful he’d be for the right side?

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  2. Okay…I won’t be shy.
    I write about the nonsense that is religion because I want to. Just as you write about …let me check, not owing any explanations -well, I don’t either, in that case.
    However, you may be a mother, and if so, will teach your children about religion. Up to a point I have no truck with this, yet your religion stresses that non believers will go to hell. This includes every single human that is not a christian. And it narrows down even more. Not a christian as described by the Nicene Creed and these days only reborn christians.
    This is not love. THIS is hateful.
    If you are unable to see it, then that is sad.
    Furthermore…this is cyberspace. Some write about food, others cars or politics.
    You choose to blog about your god and I choose to comment.
    If you don’t like what I write or are afraid for some reason then delete my comments.
    My belief is thus…
    If a faith/religion is worth believing in it will be able to stand on its own two feet; will be honest, open and beyond reproach.
    Christianity falls on its backside on all accounts.

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    1. You write about nonsense. Period.
      If there is no God, why worry you are going to hell? Where someone ends up is between God and that person, and I make no judgments about that.
      I have no idea which “Christians” will go to heaven and which will go to hell. Again, I don’t presume to know God’s business.
      What you spout is hateful..you don’t get to get mad because you think someone else is being hateful, too.
      I think your inability to see yourself is sad, too.
      I don’t need to delete comments I don’t agree with. I’m a little more thick-skinned than that.
      God can stand on His own two feet; after 2000+ years His religion is still around, despite the arguments and wars against it. He already won this argument.
      Your statement “Christianity falls on its backside on all accounts.” is an opinion; you have offered no proof that this is true. What happened to not relying on the menstrual excuse and sticking to only the facts?

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      1. You write about nonsense. Period.
        This is an opinion. You have offered no proof that this is true.

        If there is no God, why worry you are going to hell? Where someone ends up is between God and that person, and I make no judgments about that.
        You adhere to the Nicene Creed re: Jesus is the only saviour. Failure to acknowledge this means that all non-believers go to hell. This is a judgement.

        I have no idea which “Christians” will go to heaven and which will go to hell. Again, I don’t presume to know God’s business.
        ‘God’s’ business was established by the Church over several hundred years. I recommend that you read some church history. It will help your perspective.

        What you spout is hateful..you don’t get to get mad because you think someone else is being hateful, too.
        And you think stating that any person, no matter how nice they are, will go to hell when they die merely because they didn’t believe in your god is not hateful? I would rather sit with the Dali Llama than any reborn Christian.

        I think your inability to see yourself is sad, too.
        This is an opinion. You have offered no proof that this is true.

        I don’t need to delete comments I don’t agree with. I’m a little more thick-skinned than that.
        Good for you. Then we can all air our perspectives and see what we shall see. Excellent. This I respect.

        God can stand on His own two feet; after 2000+ years His religion is still around, despite the arguments and wars against it. He already won this argument.
        Yahweh is older than 2000 years, (at least 6500) according to the bible. Which god are you referring to?
        Yes, your god is still in the ascendency, this is an immutable fact of life. But times change…

        Your statement “Christianity falls on its backside on all accounts.” is an opinion; you have offered no proof that this is true. What happened to not relying on the menstrual excuse and sticking to only the facts?
        Which facts would you like me to produce? Ask away…no problem, I promise. Period. (which is almost a menstrual cycle)

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    2. “If a faith/religion is worth believing in it will be able to stand on its own two feet; will be honest, open and beyond reproach.” –Beyond whose reproach…yours? That would make you God. You think you could do better that the God of the Bible? What would = a religion that was beyond reproach in your eyes? Would it be one where anyone could do whatever they wanted to do anytime and you, as God, would love them so immensely that you would totally embrace them anyway? No rules? Or would it be a God who was completely controlling us all…manipulating our every thought and action so that we were all perfect…there were no wars and no disagreements or fights…no sickness or child abuse or crime of any sort? What would this God who is above reproach look like?

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      1. Why do you insist on twisting almost every comment I make to fit the inadequacies of Christianity?
        And why make the term, ‘beyond reproach’ personal?
        If any faith cannot stand on its own two feet; withstand honest criticism, be unable to provide honest answers to genuine questions, then what is the point of believing it?
        You would state emphatically that Islam fails to meet the criteria I listed, yes? And be honest, please.
        But you get upset when the finger is pointed at Christianity. Why? Like Islam, It too fails at almost every hurdle. It has lied to its adherent’s from the word go and abused the trust placed in it.

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    1. Thank you, Ayasonice!! Enough with sitting passively by when people attack our God for no apparent reason other than they get pleasure from hurting people!!!

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  3. Wow, you are one brave soul lol. I don’t believe I would ever be brave enough to make a post like this, but I sure am glad someone else is! I just wanted to say, the biggest reason why people do not want to believe in God is because they have a big issue with having to live their life in such a way that they cannot do whatever they want whenever they want. Living for God involves commitment, and a lot of people have problems with that. I think that if people were honest with themselves, that is what it boils down to. Of course, I myself am being a brave one by publically making that statement. But I just calls it like I sees it!

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  4. This was wonderful Bird!!!! You stated your points clearly and backed them up. There are some people out there who proclaim atheism and agnostic views just because of things from the past. Yet, if you look at history, we’ll notice that the religion which is now Christianity was polluted by politically minded individuals attempting to control the masses, instead of spreading love and peace. Just because there have been a few misguided people, the rest of us should give up our religious beliefs? There were cases where atheists prosecuted believers of various religions, yet no one has been so offensive as to trample on their beliefs. Every major religion of the world has atleast some bit of violence or other misguided human weakness, and yet Christianity and Islam bear the brunt of the trauma or insults. In the society we live in now, just having a Bible when you’re in a position of high esteem can be reason for a lawsuit, and if a Christian attempts to defend those rights, they are considered narrow-minded and bigoted. If anyone wants to argue against Christianity, then please do so with an open mind, but not with facts about behaviour patterns that any human group has performed atleast once. No one is perfect. God gave us freedom of will, stop attempting to blame Him for the choices we make. (Hope my tone of type wasn’t offensive)

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  5. Sometimes we know a bit of the Bible and think that makes us pros. Sometimes, after we make “professional” declarations, we find out we were wrong. Sometimes we are too proud to admit we are wrong. Sometimes we use loud declarations against others to take the light off our own mistaken interpretations.
    Our friend may not be an atheist at all, but rather, a Pharisee and a hypocrite.
    The facts are that the word “Christian” means acting like Christ. All the bad church-goers probably were not Christians. Jesus said they would be few, after all. He also said they would be persecuted, so our egyptian friend above is just fulfilling prophecy, I suppose.
    I wonder if all Christians acted like Jesus Christ, if our friend would still find fault? Would he, if he could, be among those who shouted for crucifixion? Really? The one who healed and raised the dead? (We’re talking historical facts, here, with more documented proof of their happening than there is for the acts of George Washington.) And I wonder how he would react if he saw true Christians, forgiving their captors and singing praises to God, fed to lions for the fun of it. Would he be in the stands, cheering?
    He already is, while he condemns violence, practicing it. Amazing how hateful he is while he eschews hate. Amazing how devoid of proof he is while he taunts the finite to prove the infinite. Amazing fella.
    Cannot help praying for him. He is missing so much. Wonder what he would be like if he once tasted joy. There is so much power sitting on hold, just over this guy’s head. Hope he looks up soon!

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    1. He already is, while he condemns violence, practicing it. Amazing how hateful he is while he eschews hate. Amazing how devoid of proof he is while he taunts the finite to prove the infinite

      Well said, Katharine!!

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    1. I have no idea why someone who doesn’t believe in God would spend so much energy on trying to make someone else bend to their opinion!

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  6. Peeks head round blog door and debates whether I should speak lol As Bird knows and anyone else who has read my blog or my posts on Birds I am pagan, i do not share Bird’s beliefs but what I do share is the belief she and everyone else has the right to have their beliefs respected (unless they involve physical harm to others) I do have christian friends out their who i know pray for me and guess what i pray to my Goddess for them. The deities we are draw to, who we find our comfortand solice in are beneficent they made us what we are for all our differences and will judge us on our actions and treayment of others. When the day comes when we meet our makers only then will we know who was right but I figure if you have lived the best life you can than you should be okay either way. Unless of course it a catholic god then I am screwed for having my children out of wedlock and will be going straight to hell, the plus side of this is it wont be raining there and I might get warm finally. Plus I reckon hell might just have the better band.

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    1. I hope you know, Paula, I make no assumptions about who is going to heaven and hell. I don’t have a problem with you speaking about your beliefs…You’re always polite and respectful. I am praying for you too…lol! I want you in our family, but the end choice is of course, yours! Don’t be afraid to come in..no need to hide!!

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  7. it is our job to try to help others to know God. to help them understand what they are missing out on in their lives . god wants us to spread his good word. Bird, you have done this. I used to be afraid to let others know I am a believer of God, and then I realized i was mocking God. Now I speak up. of all the material things we could choose to follow in our lives, and realizing we all need to have hope and belief in something , i choose God. it is the only way, thanks Bird for spreading the word

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